- The first practice is called “Taking Refuge and Developing the Enlightened Attitude” and is a well-known physical practice from Tibet that is often referred to as “Prostrations.” The meditator prostrates while visualizing all the aspects of the Refuge and repeating a refuge formula. This practice mainly purifies hindrances from the body so that it becomes a useful tool on the way to enlightenment.
- The next meditation is on the Buddha Diamond Mind. In this meditation the meditator purifies difficult subconscious impressions (the causes of disturbing feelings) before they can manifest as difficult results in one’s daily life. After having purified body, speech, and mind, one gets the space to receive new impressions.
- The next practice is called Mandala Offerings, and in it practitioners focus on everything beautiful, precious, good, and pure which they offer to the refuge. The surplus and joy that appear from this practice are used to benefit others.
- The last meditation is the Guru Yoga meditation, where one repeats certain wishes to the whole transmission lineage and increases one’s devotion and openness to one’s teacher as the source for development. The identification with the lama will help us to experience the world as blissful.
The carrot and the whip are a good analogy for how to do Ngöndro. The carrot is our buddha nature: it is our potential, it is enlightenment, it is our functioning as a bodhisattva in the future. And what is the whip? The whip would be impermanence, cause and effect. When we have them, we will manage to do our Ngöndro practice.
It is of course always good to make it very clear to ourselves how lucky we are to have the opportunity to practice something like the Ngöndro, that there are these methods which enable us to work with our mind in such an effective way. If we do not meditate, we are not in control of our mind, of our feelings, or of our life in general. We have the opportunity here to work with very, very effective means.
When one goes the long way of Ngöndro, it is a great help to never forget how precious this method is. Sometimes it goes wonderfully and sometimes it is not so easy. It takes a lot of patience, and we may also have doubts, thinking, “What are we doing here anyway?” In these moments, it is very important to see how precious it is to have this opportunity to do it.
At the same time, we should also not forget what this is about: namely that we really have everything inside us, that we truly have all qualities in our mind, that it does not have to be the case that we always have problems, that we are as happy as we want to be, and that the world in general is as it appears to us. We have the potential to give a lot into this world and to experience our own qualities as such. That is a fact and we have this opportunity. We should not forget this but do our practice with joy.
This joy is important. Through our Christian background, we have a little bit of a tendency to trip into concepts like “we are bad,” or “we have to do something because one should do it.” Actually, our methods have nothing to do with this. There is no original sin or something like that in Buddhism. On the contrary, in reality everything is a negative illusion. It is what we imagine, and the truth is all these absolute qualities.
The difficulties are like clouds passing by, which have actually never truly appeared and therefore can go away again. In order to get used to that, to see it in this way and not to stick to these old habits, we mainly do Diamond Mind. In this practice, we purify all our negative actions and thoughts.
It is clear that we understand that these negative actions are hindrances for us—even though they are illusions—and we therefore have to do something against them. However, we do not judge ourselves in a way like thinking, “I am bad,” or “I committed a sin.” We simply understand in a constructive and positive way that there is work to do in order to purify all these veils.
And we realize that this is necessary for ourselves as well as for others because otherwise we will be unable to do anything for them. If we think in this way, we will do the Ngöndro with joy. It is a wonderful thing, which of course also works.
There are also times when things are not so wonderful, as there can be strong effects and then one goes through all kinds of states. Then we have to work on understanding again that these states will not be there forever, that they are coming and going. Here we should not give up.
So far I have not talked about Prostrations, but I think everything is very clear about this practice. It is also a very good practice for our health—that is not the reason why we do them but it’s an added benefit.
With the Mandala Offerings, we get rid of our attachment in a very effective way. For Ole and myself it was the most difficult practice back then. We thought it was strange because of all of these images, and it was therefore difficult for us to connect to the practice at first. The whole thing was a bit foreign to us, and we had to have all kinds of equipment to do it, such as the rice. However, once one gets into it, it flows and gets easier and easier and one also feels the effect very quickly.
All the foundational practices are by definition called Foundational Practices for Mahamudra, but Guru Yoga in particular is actually the basis for Mahamudra. With Guru Yoga we then really come to this bridge to Mahamudra. And why? Because through Guru Yoga we establish contact between teacher and student. Our openness and the blessing of the teacher enable us more quickly to experience our mind. This is why this way is such a short one. All the meditations we do bring the result that we experience our mind. However, Guru Yoga is simply a quicker way because, through our openness and the blessing, we come to our own mind more quickly. We reach the state more quickly when this mirror, this enlightenment which is already there, is also experienced inside us.
As there is not so much theory to be explained about the Ngöndro, let’s continue with your questions.
Questions and Answers
Question: Hannah, I am currently doing prostrations, and I would like to know the following: What exactly happens when I do prostrations? What happens with my energy channels and what happens with my mind?
Hannah: Here, I would first like to say that the methods that we use, already in the Ngöndro and later generally in Diamond Way and in the Tantra way, are not always 100% explainable in conventional terms. There are things that one can understand conceptually, but there are also things that cannot be understood purely through concepts. This is the difference in the Buddha’s teachings.
You have all heard that there are Sutra teachings and Tantra teachings. In the Sutra teachings, everything is explained through normal concepts, and everything is explainable until one has an experience and then also realizes this experience or meditates on it. On the other hand, in Tantra, there are methods that cannot be understood clearly through concepts.
Here it is necessary that one has trust in the Buddha’s teachings. You gain this trust through explanations that the Buddha gave. At some point you experience them to be true, and when you have enough trust, you use the methods. During this practice, your trust is confirmed. Then you slowly feel that something is changing.
Prostrations belong to these kinds of methods for which you need the trust that negative physical impressions are simply being purified. This too makes sense from a normal point of view because you are using your body during the practice. The practice as such works in the way that it harmonizes your body channels or body energies. That the body is connected to the mind at all and that you can therefore also purify your mind through your body is assumed by some perhaps, but this is simply the way that Buddha explains it. As long as we have our bodies, there is a very strong connection between body and mind. As a result, we can do something for our bodies through our minds and vice versa. We have all kinds of energy channels in our bodies, and when our mind is not clear but is confused, then there is also confusion in our body. As a result, there is a lot that is blocked.
When we use our bodies to stretch these energy channels and let the energies flow, then we can in this way also purify our mind. These impressions are related to our physical actions. In this way, we simply use our body as a tool to purify something physical. At the same time, as mentioned, it is also healthy because a body that is in balance will of course also bring better health.
It is not merely a physical exercise because we make the connection to the buddhas and bodhisattvas. We open ourselves to them and we develop the wishes that what we are doing is not only for ourselves but for everyone. This happens by including everyone and then doing the practice. Already through this attitude and way of thinking we achieve results that positively affect our mind.
Additionally, it is a meditation method through which we also learn to focus our mind, and this is the meditational aspect. We have to learn this, and we learn it in all meditations. Here we learn it through what the meditation itself is. Every meditation has its course through which we learn how to concentrate our mind.
In the Prostrations, we imagine doing them with countless people and other beings. When we imagine specific people in front of us with whom we have difficulties, is this useful and does it have a harmonizing or some other effect?
Hannah: It is very useful. It is very useful because it is a very good way to rid ourselves of this aversion.
Actually, you really wish all beings enlightenment. This is your bodhisattva promise. This is really your goal, that all beings become enlightened.
With the beings we like and with whom we have a good connection, it’s always easy to wish them everything good, but we might need to learn to wish this from the heart for all beings, especially for those with whom we have a difficult connection. And it is very important to learn this because it has nothing to do with you whether they should achieve enlightenment or not. They are of course equal to all other beings. They also have buddha nature, and when people are difficult, they need even more support and even more compassion from your side. Therefore it is a very good habit.
You said earlier that what makes Guru Yoga so special is the openness of the student and the blessing of the Lama. In Prostrations one also opens oneself up a lot, takes refuge, and also opens up to the lamas sitting in the refuge tree. Therefore, I would like to ask, what is the major difference between it and Guru Yoga?
Hannah: Of course the connection is also there with Prostrations, but there the refuge aspect is more strongly emphasized. Of course the quality of refuge and of yourself are the same, but this is something you first have to understand. Therefore, the refuge is already somewhat there even in the beginning, and then you increasingly understand the meaning of refuge, and you develop the bodhisattva attitude.
With Guru Yoga it is more that you then meditate on this. You meditate on the basis of this blessing. This is the meditation. The wishes that you make in Guru Yoga also refer to this. They refer to you wishing for this blessing and wishing to experience the different qualities. Because the Lama has already understood or developed these qualities, he can help you. This is the meditation. This is what you concentrate on in your meditation. This is what is special with Guru Yoga.
I would like to know what it depends on how deeply the Diamond Mind meditation purifies. Can one influence or wish for it or do we get less purified if we are less concentrated in a certain moment? Or does everything go automatically?
Hannah: This is a good question. It is not only relevant for Diamond Mind but for our meditations in general.
The frame should always be there. This means that you do your meditation in such a way that you first take refuge, then you develop your bodhisattva attitude, and then at the end of the meditation, you share everything. So you wish that everyone has benefit from your meditation. When this frame is there, then nothing can really go wrong. Sometimes one thinks that it does not have any meaning at all and sometimes it feels better, but then what you are doing is going in the right direction and has meaning. It is right what you are doing here. This is especially true with Diamond Mind, where it is about the conditions to perform this purification.
First you have to realize that there is something to purify. This does not mean that there is something like sin in that sense. However, there is confusion, and it is necessary to do something about it; the mind needs this. You also need to have trust in the method you are using, in this case Diamond Mind, that it is a buddha aspect and that through the meditation you can also perform the purification.
Then of course you have to do it, and you have to promise yourself that in the future you no longer want to commit harmful actions. This is a decision you make. You purify what has already been done and decide not to do something like this again.
When you hold this in your mind and you say the mantra, then it is okay, regardless of whether you are sometimes able to concentrate more or sometimes less. The main thing is that you have this attitude and that you are doing your best. Sometimes people get very tired while doing Diamond Mind. Here, you can keep oneself fresh by getting up for example or splashing water on your face. Then you can have confidence that it works.
Sometimes there are things that feel urgent somehow. Then we feel that something is there. In this case, we also know what it is and then purify it more consciously. Otherwise pretty much everything exists. Since beginningless time up until today, one can be quite certain that one has done everything, and one can also do a general purification here. This understanding also helps to be more tolerant towards others. One does not think anymore, “I am good and he is bad,” or “He is good and I am bad.” To have committed positive and negative actions is something we basically all have in common. Now we simply have the chance to change something.
Hannah, I have another question regarding Diamond Mind: When doing Prostrations, which I have already finished, I was paying a lot of attention to doing the practice very continuously, so at least a little bit every day, or I was at least reading the text when there was no other way. Now I am halfway through the Diamond Mind meditation, but in my life so many conditions have changed that I have the feeling to always only be running after the conditioned world and to organize it, and I get more and more distance to the meditation because I really have phases in which I meditate next to never. Can you give me some advice?
Hannah: You have actually already given the answer yourself, right? I mean, then it is even more important that you keep this continuity. Do a minimum. You can always manage a minimum. You would not believe how big the difference is between only meditating a quarter of an hour per day or not meditating at all. The difference is huge, and you can always manage a quarter of an hour within twenty-four hours.
Just do this as a minimum and you will see that on some days you will only have this quarter of an hour and on other days you will suddenly have more. And then you are doing this and are happy and you can also do more. So try to introduce it, maybe in a flexible way in the beginning because it sounds like you do not so easily find the time. But when you introduce this minimum, then you will also feel like doing it again. Otherwise you get so far away and then there is something else every day. Give this a try.
When I come home from work and think I should clean up but do not do it because I do not feel like it anyway, then I think I should meditate, but I find a thousand reasons not to do it right now but to do something else first. Or I just meditated two days ago; this is enough and I will do it the day after tomorrow. Key word: motivation—give us some great tips once again.
Hannah: This is actually what I started with. It is simply important not to forget how lucky one is to be able to do this at all and to see it in this way. We should therefore actually do it with joy and not see it as some kind of duty that we have to fulfill, because it is not. We also have to decide this for ourselves. We are very fortunate that we are able to do this at all, and we should also remember what a great opportunity it is.
I do understand what you mean. Our way of life consists almost only of distractions, from our childhood until today. In our society everything is facing outwards and happens outside, and one must put in a lot of effort to be able to follow at all. To even find this time to be here is not always so easy. But we are so fortunate to have these methods at all, and every meditation also starts with this motivation: the precious human body, impermanence—we can die at any moment—cause and effect, and so on.
Actually, it is all there all the time. We just have to remember it. And our mind is constantly being shaped. We actually do everything we do because of habits. This habit simply
needs to be incorporated. The best moment is when you wake up in the morning. Then you shape your mind. Then you shape it in the way of being happy that you have this opportunity with the motivation to be able to do more for others when you improve. And this is your red line throughout the day. Then there will also be this inner joy to be able to do this at all.
It is good not to have a huge program because it never works out—rather a minimal program that one manages. And then this minimal program can increase. Does that make sense or do you need more motivation? (laughing)
It is simply a question of habit, the joyful habit. That one sees how wonderful it is and that it will therefore become reality. And it does not have to be so much every day. Here we often have concepts. Already a little bit every day makes a huge difference and then we feel like doing more if possible.
You talk about “Mahamudra.” Could you please explain again very explicitly what Mahamudra is?
Hannah: That is a good question. The question was: “What is Mahamudra?” (laughing) I am laughing because this topic is actually what everything is about. We do everything else to realize Mahamudra. If one says “Mahamudra,” one actually talks about the end-Mahamudra, which means the experience of Mahamudra. But we cannot experience Mahamudra just like that, because it means resting in the nature of mind.
There is the Mahamudra basis, the Mahamudra way, and then the Mahamudra result. In order to be able to experience this result, there must be a basis; otherwise it would not be possible. This basis is our buddha nature. It is our own mind. It is the qualities of our mind, when it is not disturbed—the way mind is in itself, that it is in itself empty of a nature of its own, that it is clear and can be understood. These qualities of mind are there and have always been there and must not be taken from somewhere or made, rather they are naturally there.
Because this is the case, we can experience it ourselves at some point. However, we are not currently able to experience it, which is why we are going the Mahamudra way. This means that we use all the means which allow us to remove what prevents this awareness. The thing preventing this awareness is our ignorance. This is the Mahamudra way, and Ngöndro is the Mahamudra way.
There are also other methods. But the reason that one says “foundational practices for Mahamudra” is that this is the way to Mahamudra awareness. Mahamudra in itself means to experience one’s mind, the nature of mind. This means experiencing no “I”-illusion, no duality, no disturbing emotions, only wisdom and activity. It is not a passive state in which nothing happens. It is a state in which there are no limits, in which we do not constantly limit everything with concepts and feelings but where activity is spontaneous and free and only useful for other beings. This is the result.
I would like to know if Ngöndro is based on Sutra or Tantra? Is it based directly on Buddha’s teachings or is it a creation or invention from within the Kagyu Lineage? I was also told once that it was practiced in the entire Vajrayana. However, I know for example from Gelugpa1 friends of mine, who also receive transmissions, that they have never completed a Ngöndro. Also the Nyingmas for example have this Rigpa instead of Mahamudra, and you said that Ngöndro was a special preparation for Mahamudra. So to what extent is it something special for us or to what extent is it part of a general Buddhist path?
Hannah: For the new people who are here, one should maybe say that Buddhism is very vast. The Buddha gave 84,000 teachings. Because he gave so many different methods, there are of course different paths. In Tibet, these paths were transmitted by teachers who came from India and then the different schools developed.
These schools have the same teachings in principle, only the transmission lineages are different. There are different teachers, different students, and therefore it developed into different lineages. Over time, what is emphasized in all of these teachings has changed. I called our Ngöndro the “Mahamudra Ngöndro” because this is what our Ngöndro is called. Actually it is called the “Preliminary Practices for Mahamudra”, or “Tschag Tschen Ngön Dro” in Tibetan. We are not the only ones who do these preliminary practices. Other schools also have their preliminary practices. There are then different terminologies.
Mahamudra is a Kagyu term. As you said, the Nyingmas have Rigpa and also Dzogchen. The Sakyas and Gelugpas again have different terms. When you talk about the essential qualities, they are of course the same, regardless of what they are called. The terminology is simply different. How much Ngöndro the Gelugpas do, I do not know. There are Gelugpa Ngöndros, where they meditate on a different tree. They then have such a Kappa. The Nyingmas and the Sakyas also do a Ngöndro, but I do not know how extensively.
Our Ngöndro text that we use was written by the 9th Karmapa. There are also other Ngöndro texts within the Kagyu lineage. For example, there is one from the 8th Karmapa. The wording is not from the Buddha but the methods are from the Buddha. So this goes way back, and it is to be done in this way, also in our lineage.
You said we of course try to rid ourselves of our disturbing emotions in order to recognize the nature of mind. Assuming we have achieved this, what is left then are the perceptions of objects like this tent or the ground beneath us. Can one also describe this as disturbing emotions on a very subtle level or only what happens to us, for example, if I hit my head against a tree or something? Or are these perceptions also disturbing emotions on a subtle level?
Hannah: All movements in mind that appear from ignorance are disturbing emotions. This is the actual definition. The main disturbing emotions that we always talk about and that we always experience, like attachment, anger, jealousy, pride, and so on are of course very clear. Additionally, there are all the subsequent disturbing emotions that result from them. These are the coarser disturbing emotions.
In order to become enlightened, one of course must also purify the subtle, not quite disturbing emotions but the disturbances in the mind. These are then our concepts that are present because we do not understand the nature of things and see absolutely everything in a dualistic manner. These are the disturbances that are meant here. However, when we purify our mind more and more, these disturbances and disturbing emotions are transformed. One can say that the energy of our mind is thereby released. All these things are what limit us, what make us smaller. And when we purify them, then everything is possible. Then these limitations fall away. Then we do not constantly block everything with our concepts.
Hannah, do you think it is possible to purify all disturbances in the mind through Ngöndro?
Hannah: At least this is the most effective thing you can do. At some point they will all be gone. Do not think so much about the result. Simply do it.
When talking about meditation, we say that feelings arise and we work with them. Can I also artificially generate a feeling in meditation and work with it?
Hannah: The state of meditation is again something different. In connection with some meditations, there are specific means to do something like this but I would not simply start to do it by myself.
Actually, one usually also does not need to. When you meditate, there are usually enough disturbances which come—whether it is thoughts or disturbing emotions or something else. And in meditation itself, it is about you simply learning not to follow them. There you stay with your meditation. You do not push them away, but you learn not to follow them. This is what you do in meditation. There you cannot run away because it is in your mind; there is no one else there. But you remain sitting and you bring your mediation back to the point where you are.
Or, if you have practiced for a long time, you can simply watch this disturbing emotion. And then it will dissolve because it does not truly exist. But for this you have to practice, and when you have practiced enough, then you will also manage it when it spontaneously appears at some point.
When we meditate on the buddhas, it is said that we should imagine them in a very radiant way, like a mountain of rubies in the light of a thousand suns. But this is actually very straining if one imagines it in a really radiant way. Then it is totally intense and also blinding in a way.
Hannah: (laughing) And?
Also when Ole, for example, talks about Mahamudra meditation, he says that it is like a thousand volts in every cell, so a very intense state with fully opened eyes. But when we see the picture of Karmapa in his Mahamudra state, then he is completely relaxed. Are these different states or what is this?
Hannah: Do you mean that it actually disturbs you in your meditation, or what?
Does it have to be very straining or does it have to be relaxing?
Hannah: (laughing) You know, mind can actually do everything. And in meditation it is about becoming able to experience this completely limitless state. The question then is how you reach it. If you experience the meditation as very straining or you make it into that and it disturbs you, you should in this case of course relax your mind more. This is the aim after all. Sometimes one can also be too relaxed so that one cannot focus at all and the mind goes everywhere and one also gets sleepy. This is then too relaxed. You have to find this balance in your own practice where your mind is clear and at the same time it is not strained. While doing this, you should not hold on to any concept.
What you are saying concerning “radiant” and “blinding”—this is too material. This is not the way it is. There is no effort; it is simply the clarity and vastness of mind. When you imagine it in a bright way, it also helps against the tendency of the mind to simply go into its ignorance. This is an antidote. But your state of mind in itself is actually what it is about. There you have to use the method in a way in which you can also relax.
Can you say something about shinay and lhaktong, especially with regards to our meditations? What is shinay and what is lhaktong? What kind of effect does it have and why do we do it, especially taking into consideration that Sharma Rinpoche said we should do more shinay.
Hannah: Some people here are completely new and have not even heard explanations on what shinay and lhaktong mean. I can briefly explain the terms.
Shinay is the Tibetan word. In Sanskrit it is called shamata, and in English it is calm-abiding. Lhaktong is the Tibetan word. In Sanskrit it is vipashyana, and it means insight in English. All the meditations we do consist of shinay and lhaktong. These are the two ways in which we meditate because meditation means to first of all calm the mind. Normally, the mind is not calm. Either one is distracted or falls asleep. Here we learn to concentrate, which means focusing the mind. This is shinay.
When the mind is neither distracted nor unclear, only then do we have the possibility to experience mind at all. This is insight. This is why all Buddhist meditations have these two points of access or two aspects. With Ngöndro, we mainly practice shinay because this is what we need at first. We cannot avoid it. In Ngöndro, the methods of shinay are all of the images we call to mind in our meditations. This means that in Prostrations we concentrate on the refuge tree; in Diamond Mind that we meditate on Diamond Mind; in Mandala Offerings we concentrate on the buddhas and bodhisattvas, our object, and so on. Also when we say mantras they are objects of our meditation.
In connection with this, we train our shinay. So we train our mind to focus on these different meditation objects and bring it back to the focus when it becomes distracted. We also practice keeping the mind fresh, so we keep these periods short enough for us not to fall asleep, and we try to remain clear. All of this belongs to shinay. Slowly we begin to gain meditation experiences in our shinay practice. You all know this: sometimes the mind is very clear and completely calm and we feel this concentration. These are the results of shinay.
Though shinay, when we get these experiences in our meditation, it is then about not grasping for them, not trying to stay in the experience or trying to hold onto it when it is pleasant and not trying to get rid of it when it is unpleasant. Simply keep meditating, independent of the results. This is also part of shinay, and it is part of our meditation practice. This is what we all do the entire time during the Ngöndro and in the Karmapa meditation.
The lhaktong aspect of the meditation, vipashyana or insight, is not so present in the beginning because our mind has not yet developed enough stability. This is why we cannot yet practice it very effectively. However, that does not mean that it is not there because there are moments in which mind can be experienced completely without concepts, spontaneously, more like a flash. This is a type of insight. But this is not what we meditate on here.
The insight phase of the meditation is more targeted. It is the result of shinay. When we have concentrated on the buddhas and dissolve this image at the end of our meditation and then simply rest in this for a moment, a moment of this lhaktong can arise. In the long run, one can extend this more and more. Lhaktong is actually connected to us experiencing the emptiness nature.
Everything that has to do with understanding emptiness and with experiencing emptiness is lhaktong. Therefore, it is also lhaktong when one uses a different, more conceptual way to gain an understanding of emptiness and then meditates on it. This is actually also lhaktong meditation. We do this in a different way in connection with our meditations in Ngöndro, where we practice lhaktong in the completion phase. Can you see the difference between how you work with your mind here and how these two support each other? Again we can consider ourselves very fortunate.
In our way in the Kagyu School, these two ways of meditating are connected relatively early, so that we really almost do them in parallel. Even though it is actually a bit early to even talk about lhaktong, it is still available in a phase of our meditation so that we can slowly integrate it. To truly have the full experience of lhaktong is very difficult when shinay is not very stable. However, we have very good balance because we practice them together, so we will then probably be able to experience them both more quickly. Here, we are very privileged with this method.
My question has to do with the shinay meditation. I have heard from Ole that one has to watch out not to calm the mind too much so that one does not lose the radiant power of mind. Which things do we need to be aware of to use it correctly?
Hannah: This is, of course, incorrect shinay. This is when one does not do shinay correctly. In connection with our different meditations, we now do shinay. In order to avoid this dull state, one just has to keep the mind fresh throughout the concentration phases, so do not try to keep a strong concentration for too long. Because the mind will not play along. It has to learn this, just like muscles. If you work too hard with your muscles, you will get sore muscles.
And also the mind has to learn to fully concentrate because it is not used to this either. This means that in meditation, when we meditate, when we say mantras, we are automatically sometimes concentrated and sometimes not, because the mind cannot remain concentrated. So when we do the building-up phase, we concentrate in the beginning, and then we see how strongly our mind can hold this. When we are very concentrated in the beginning, then we cannot keep this strong concentration the entire time. When we try this, the mind will switch off and will become either distracted or simply tired.
For this reason, one has to keep the meditation fresh, so concentrate for a while and then let go again and then concentrate again and let go again. Then you cannot go wrong. And what you are quoting here are simply different methods in which this is simply not observed at all. But when you meditate correctly, you will not have this danger.
If during a meditation one spontaneously gets the feeling that one understands what this meditation is actually good for and one could also express it in words and explain it to someone, is this shinay, is this lhaktong, or is this only a concept and actually a disturbance?
Hannah: It is not lhaktong. Actually, all meditation experiences that you have are part of shinay. They are side effects of shinay, and there are all kinds of levels. For example, the experience that the mind is completely running away is
a side effect. Even the experience of falling asleep is a side effect. Also, the experience of having the mind completely clear is a side effect, just as well as having the mind without concepts and having other ideas like these. Some people also have all kinds of physical experiences or visions. These are all side effects of shinay.
What you are saying now is also a side effect of shinay. What you do with it is that you do not do anything with it. You do not even assess or judge it. You simply continue. Then the meditation also continues. Usually our mind functions in a way that we are in some kind of state, whether pleasant or unpleasant, and we immediately start developing our ideas about it. That we want to have and keep it or that we do not want to have it, if it is unpleasant. Then we are stuck here.
However, the meditation is learning to remain fully neutral—whatever happens—and this is not as easy as it sounds. To learn this is actually what it is all about at first. And I am saying that this is not as easy as it sounds because one can sometimes experience very pleasant states. To simply let it be like this is not that easy. When one then sits down again, it is really difficult not to wish to experience it again. Sometimes one can also experience feeling depressed and thinking, “I cannot meditate” or “What is this all about?” and not feeling like doing it. This is also not easy to ignore.
This is actually what we need to learn. This is why we meditate because this is how we change these habits in our mind of always going back and forth and following automatically; with these habits, we are not free.
How do I recognize that I am having an experience that is based on the experience of emptiness?
Hannah: Then you know. Then there is no question. Then it is a confirmation in itself.
And as long as there is doubt that remains, is it something else?
Hannah: Yes. And one should also not underestimate what else falls into this shinay category. This goes very far. One can have many experiences here. And this will come; there is no need to doubt. Sometimes one can also have flashes and then one also knows that this is the right thing. However, one cannot yet control it so much. This will then come, and eventually one will be able to hold it longer and longer. This is the same with everyone.
I have another question about lhaktong: is it only possible in the completion phase to experience this or is it a state which then also shows itself in the other phases of the meditation or in normal life? Or does it really refer to the meditation only?
Hannah: In the completion phase you practice it. This is the method to practice it. Your mind may be developed enough that you can also experience it at other times; we can of course not rule that out. This is then more spontaneous. However, in the completion phase you practice it. Eventually, we will also be able to hold it. And then we can also hold it in non-meditation phases.
And what then is the difference to Mahamudra?
Hannah: This is Mahamudra.
Are Mahamudra and lhaktong the same then?
Hannah: Mahamudra is the result. You can call the nature of mind all kinds of things. However, in the lhaktong practice you practice it. The experience in itself is always the same.
- There are four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism, known as the Gelugpa, Sakyapa, Nyingma, and Kagyu. ↩︎
